★★★  Inter Act  ★★★ with Dawn Williams

Emma:

You have an amazingly impressive list of continuous work since graduating. How strange has it felt not being in a performance setting for around a year?

Dawn:

Really strange! I already really appreciated what I did and couldn't really believe I could do it as a job (!) but I didn't realize how much good endorphins were involved, or how much my whole day was planned around it. Although I only started work at 5.30, my whole day was leading up to it - so my mentality, how active I was, even just walking to work and walking back and just being surrounded by people all the time...

Emma:

...and usually quite energized people...

Dawn:

...and that really brings you out of your shell. Doing what I do, you'd think I'd be an extrovert - but I'm actually quite shy. However, being like that with everyone all the time does bring you out of your shell.

Emma:

I think a lot of performers would say the same - you know, they've got that ‘performy’ thing but left to their own devices, they're quite reserved.

Dawn:

Yes, even when I do bump into people now when on a walk, I'll say “Hi” but I used to be surrounded by people all day everyday so I think, personality-wise, I have to remind myself that I'm still the same person - it's just been a lockdown for a year. I really miss the endorphins of performing; I just don't know anything else, I just love it.

Emma:

But that's great to have that reinforced. You knew it before and you didn't take it for granted before.

Dawn:

Yes, it's just made me realize that I don't want to do anything else.

Emma:

Well that's great to find out as well, isn't it?

Emma:

I know that auditions can come end-on-end when you are moving jobs - I'm thinking particularly of the phase you had a couple of years ago when you got them almost every half-day - do you have particular ways to memorize lots of material at speed?

Dawn:

I'm still learning now, really. If I get it the day before, I get familiar with it and I just keep going over it because I think I need to be off-book - because they've not given much time, I'd rather show them what I can do. If I do get a few days or a week, I just repeat, repeat, repeat; I make some character choices as to how I want to sing it, things like that - but then I always have to write everything down hundreds of times.

Emma:

Do you ever record it and listen back?

Dawn:

Yes, some sessions I've done with you - like when I did all the ‘Half a Sixpence’ stuff with you - I just listen back, listen back, listen back and then I write out lines as well. Some people can do it all by ear but I'm a bit of both.

Emma:

That's really helpful. I think a lot of people use different strands, different ways of doing it - not just one way.

Dawn:

Yes - try to stay calm because it can be quite overwhelming.

Emma:

Yes, and if it really goes wrong on the day but you've tried your best, they're usually quite amenable, aren't they, if you've not had much time?

Dawn:

Yes, sure - and they always say it's not a memory test. I think if you've done the same material three or four times, then by the end, they definitely want you to be off-book and know it - but sometimes, on the first round with new material, they just want to see if you have got that style, if you can do it. So for me, I like being off-book because I can then give it more performance but if I'm uncertain, then I'll hold it in front of me...then I can give a better performance.

Emma:

I guess also, as well as trying to picture you with other people, they're getting a vibe from you, just as much as about knowing your words?

Dawn:

Yes definitely.

Emma:

In these irregular times, do you manage to maintain your physical and vocal fitness? Do you work on both aspects every day and have you modified your regimes at all?

Dawn:

In the first lockdown, we knew it was going to be about three months and it was getting a bit warmer, so I was quite strict. I'd do my workout every morning; then Sam and I would do a vocal warmup in the flat, things like that. I had a job at that point, so I'd go and do the job and come back; but the longer the lockdown situation has been going on, the more I try not to be too hard on myself and try to do it when I feel I need to, or it feels most natural. I don't give myself too much of a strict regime.

Emma:

Do you have a special diet?

Dawn:

Basically, I enjoy my food and it's been one of the things you can enjoy this year. So I have eaten more than I would, probably, when I was in a show ... but then I've just gone on a longer walk! Or, if I've not eaten well that week, then I won't do lots of workouts - or if I've eaten a lot, then I'll do a bit more.

Emma:

That's very sensible. I do remember when you were in ‘Cats’, we met up and you said that you could eat anything! You were virtually somersaulting 24 hours a day, weren't you?

Dawn:

‘Cats body’ - yes, it is one of the few shows where you're on stage the whole time and I needed the energy - whereas now, I'm not using as much energy...so I shouldn't be eating as much!

Emma:

I think a lot of people would say the same.

Emma:

What is your favourite music to lift your spirits and/or energize yourself?

Dawn:

I've never really had a favourite type of music. One day, I'll whack on the show tunes and sing along to them, or sometimes, I'll need something like Ed Sheeran or something soulful, or listen to the words; but to be honest, I've become a fan of the radio this year. Also, I had to stop watching the news. I feel that, on the radio, you get such a range of music and then you get a bit of the news and you get some live conversations - so the radio's been my thing this year.

Emma:

A lot of people have said the same to me. They found the news overwhelming, very, very quickly - so, as you say, you can get the news on the radio, along with a lot of other things - that's really nice.

Dawn:

Yes I think that's been a bit of the saving grace, actually. Who am I?!! I never listened to the radio!

Emma:

It's called life! - don't worry, other things happen as well!

Emma:

The rôle of ‘swing’ in a show is notoriously demanding - for those who aren't familiar with this rôle, can you explain what it entails, how demanding the learning is and any surprises that come with doing it?

Dawn:

I always appreciate the swing in other shows because I've always covered, so I know it's hard to learn something, then go on and the audience doesn't know that you didn't do that yesterday or you've never done it before. When you cover, you get a rehearsal process. So when I was doing Jemima and I covered Rumpleteazer, I had a whole rehearsal process - I had a dress run and a technical run. When you're swing, you learn the whole show standing at the side; so I had to learn different things as I went along. I'd learn one track - that would be someone in the ensemble's whole track - and then off that track I knew she was always next to this person and so on, so then I'd have to learn everyone's track. People do it in different ways - some people do it number by number but I did it person by person.

Emma:

Can you just say for a show like that, how many tracks is that?

Dawn:

So ‘Half a Sixpence’ was my first experience of it and I was an ‘on-stage swing’. So I learnt one track which was my track; then I covered all the rest of the girls - that was about six or seven in that show - but I found it a little bit easier because I was on stage every night. So when I felt comfortable in my track, I'd be noticing things like: they do that, they go over there, etc.. However, in ‘Matilda’, I cover all the adults and all the kids. I even cover the boys! There are two or three bits I can't do, like when I'm in front of the gates, because the girls can't physically reach or hold themselves up there...and then the salsa, I only know the girl's part not the boy's part - but everything else, apart from Matilda and the principals, I do know - so that's 18 or 19 tracks, I think.

Emma:

I presume they pay you 18 or 19 times, do they?!

Dawn:

Oh no! You get a swing fee. I think it's even more appreciated in America; I think swings are like gold dust. Some people even swing shows. In London, it's more like I get an ‘adult swing’ fee and then I get an emergency ‘kids swing’ fee because I cover the kids too. However on tour, it was one swing fee that we all got and I felt a bit hard done by because one girl covered the kids, one girl covered the adults and I covered both - but we all got paid the same; but then I got on stage more, so I'd rather that. In town, it's a bit more hectic - so maybe that's why they pay a bit more, I don't know.

Emma:

Is it exhausting, or do you like the fact that it's varied?

Dawn:

Well, you taught me from a young age; obviously, I can sing, dance and act but I'm not a natural at any of them - I just love it.

Emma:

Oh I wouldn't say that! I have to say your work ethic is absolutely phenomenal. I know that but there's a lot of talent there to start with, so it's not like saying you're starting from nothing...

Dawn:

Yes, not starting from nothing but I'm not a technician, I'm not technical, in all of them.

Emma:

Really? You're being modest! Is it fun or overwhelming?

Dawn:

The bit I like the most is the stage presence, being on stage, so it is hard when you're sitting in the dressing room for a whole week and no-one is off that week - but it's good for the show. Then all of a sudden “Dawn, you're on for Act 2” and all I want to do is get on stage. I obviously give it 100% but you have to give it about 90% because swing is all about ‘right place, right time’ and ‘blend in’ - and I always like standing out! They say a compliment to a swing is if you're unseen, or unheard. When everyone else does the same show and it's not different with your being on, that's a compliment. If you're in slightly the wrong place or you do something a bit different, then everyone knows that swing is on!

Emma:

As an aside, I can happily say (having watched you in everything) that you're just like a light bulb. You may be doing a phenomenally and perfectly executed routine, fitting in and getting everything right where you're supposed to be, but you just radiate on stage, as anyone will say who's watched you. So that's a lovely combination of both, isn't it?

Dawn:

Yes and it's probably quite good, sometimes. For example, I remember when I was Baby Bear, with this massive outfit on - my outfit was so big, I felt I needed to give it even more. Actually, though, being a swing, I do think that, because I have to pull back a little bit to make sure I'm concentrating, sometimes my performance is probably a bit better...because I'm not going all out.

Emma:

It's very hard when it's perhaps only a day and then you're off again, waiting - if you were doing something to measure in small steps often, then you'd get into a rhythm...

Dawn:

It's so hard. In term, it's a little bit easier - not for the the kids, as it's very sporadic - but for the adults, everyone gets their own holidays so I'll know I'm on as Acrobat this week, or as some other character another week. On tour, it might be for six months that I could not go on; then the next week, I'd be someone different everyday - whereas town's a bit more like I'd get a run at a few tracks.

Emma:

It's different for every show, isn't it?

Dawn:

Yes. Sam was a swing on ‘Wicked’ - they do it differently again. He was ‘singer swing’, so he covered about five people and they were the singer tracks; they also had a ‘dancer swing’ who did the dance tracks. So every show does it slightly differently.

Emma:

Do you think that ensemble is useful when singers train? So many younger singers who only have solo lessons don't fully understand the benefits of group workshop work and choir singing, as well as their solo tasks.

Dawn:

Massively - it is amazing to have private singing lessons and to work on songs just for you because that works for technique...and you've then got a lovely repertoire of music. However, since going to college, I think I've only been a soloist a handful of times and I've been in ensemble 20, 30, 40 times and it's so different, to blend with everyone, to have an ear (which I still struggle with now). Some songs I hear it straightaway and some I have to go over and over and over.

Emma:

I think if you have the benefit of choirs early on then that's good but a lot of people still struggle in that because it's hard, isn't it?

Dawn:

Yes and you've got to focus on what you're singing but also blend with other people; and in shows, sometimes the MD's in front of you and sometimes on a screen and you've got to come off at the same time. It's not just your version of that song, it's being with everyone - and I've done way more of that in my professional career than I thought. I wish I even took more when I was younger.

Emma:

I'll explain that you have very, very kindly given workshops on all manner of things, as you've gone through all your shows. I remember once when you came back and watched some of the younger students in my practice and gave them some tasks to do. It's fabulous for them to have people to look up to, to follow, but I think it was when you were in ‘Cats’, you were explaining how much of it was choral. I remember, when we came to watch you it the Palladium, that lovely choral moment. It's a really potent choral feeling actually, isn't it, when everyone's singing together. You said it's just like a choir experience - and if you've not had that before, then that's a shame, isn't it, because it's important in that show.

Dawn:

Yes, especially that bit because it's the opening of the show - so you're singing and dancing around the stage and all of a sudden, you stand like a choir at the back. We were also so tight together, I had different people on the side of me on different nights, in front of me, behind me; there'd be somebody else on your line but they could be on the other side of the stage, so it was such a challenge for me but it was so rewarding. When you do get it, it's wow!

Emma:

It feels very solid, as well, being inside a sound like that, doesn't it?

Dawn:

Yes and it's not something I have massive experience of - even in ‘Matilda’, it's three girls and three boys so you get three-part harmony but it's still only six or seven people singing, which is still amazing - but that massive choral sound..when it happens, that is amazing. I think I get even more of a buzz because I find the dancing a little bit easier to pick up, I have to work a little bit more on the singing, so then when I do get it, it's wow - and I bet it's the same if someone struggles a bit with the movement - once they get it, wow!

Emma:

They're really proud of it.

Dawn:

Yes.

Emma:

What are the most challenging aspects of staying fit and happy when you are touring?

Dawn:

It's a different ball game again. I don't mind touring because I feel you're in that venue for a purpose. So sometimes we'll have rehearsals say in Leicester or somewhere and you always go to see the coolest places in that town. As for eating, I always try to get self-contained accommodation now; I used to live with families but if I'm cooking all the time, then I'm not eating out all the time. Sometimes I eat out, which is quite nice. As for the gym, when I'm not a swing, I don't join a gym because I exert it already in the show. In ‘Matilda’, I was on tour for 18 months and I always tried to join a gym and if I hadn't been on that night, I'd go and do half an hour in the gym after the show, to burn out my energy - and then go to sleep like normal. It's always a bit different on tour - some people don't like it but I do, I quite enjoy it.

Emma:

Do you have a particularly memorable experience from all the shows you've done?

Dawn:

Oh that's hard! I feel really fortunate; all the shows have been quite different, so I feel they've all given me different feelings, There have been a few memorable experiences but I'm going to go with this one. It was my first big show, ‘Cats’; I was Jemima and we did a bit of an international tour. We were in Athens and I sang ‘Moonlight’ in Greek...

Emma:

How unusual!

Dawn:

It was just this one line and then everyone comes in afterwards in English but I was so scared because I was sent it a week before. I was sent the phonetics and then I wrote it out phonetically again for myself. I went over it and I got a little session on it before but I was so nervous because I was singing in another language and I didn't know if they understood. It's the ‘Moonlight’ bit - you don't usually get applause because it goes straight into the next section - and, as I was singing, you could hear whispering. Then they all started clapping and it was so overwhelming.

Emma:

Could you offer any thoughts to those currently auditioning for work or applying for performing courses? It's very odd at the moment!

Dawn:

Yes. I don't want them to lose faith because we're all in a bit of a mist and I'm holding on for it all to come back. It might be good if they're auditioning now because by the time they've done their training, things will be more normal again but I think if you love it and you work hard and you want to give it a shot, then just go for it. Audition and do what you can because you'd rather that, than in five years think why didn't I give it a try? I think you've got nothing to lose - if you love it, go for it.

Emma:

That's very helpful. I think it's very challenging for everyone because of the uncertainties. If it makes your heart sing, then I think you should probably still do it because vocal and expressive people have to express and share - that's just how they are, so they will have to do that, one way or the other.

Dawn:

Definitely.

Emma:

Are you still smiling, generally?! Everyone knows you never stop smiling!

Dawn:

I am. It's been a roller coaster of a year. I've been a delivery driver, a painter and decorator and I've started my own business, making masks and scrunchies. It's been crazy and I have held out - I've not changed career, or trained in anything because I feel I've waited this long, it's a bit yo-yo; I want to see what comes of this. However, I have had to do things to keep busy. One week, I'm game to make the most of this but then the next week, I'm thinking what is life?! I'm turning 30!

Emma:

I think for everyone it's just odd. You have to get through days with whatever skills you can and whatever keeps you buoyant, really. It's such a weird time.

Dawn:

Yes...and reminding yourself that the whole world has gone through this - it's one of the few things that has affected the whole world. So when I have watched a film at one o'clock in the afternoon, I've been thinking “Dawn you're so lazy, what are you doing?!” - but what else can you do? You've got to make the most of that moment.

Emma:

I've been saying to people also if you get to the end of this, look back and say I could have done such and such and I didn't and I had all that time...! It's quite a good time to focus on things that you wouldn't make the time for normally and try to get them in order - perhaps different things that you wouldn't normally do.

Dawn:

Yes definitely - and it's made me do things. I've had a sewing machine for ages and I've done little things but it actually made me pluck up the courage to do more because I have the time. Also walking - usually I just walked to the train station but I have really enjoyed walking in the fresh air this year. I know we can't get out that much but that's really kept me sane. Also music, cooking - I've loved cooking this year; most of my time I live out of Tupperware! Even in London, I've got rehearsals, so I'll cook in the morning, take it in and eat out of Tupperware. So at the moment, sitting down at a table and eating my dinner...! It's maybe not been the same endorphins but I've definitely tried to keep creating happiness. I don't wake up and think I'm happy, rather, what can I do today to make myself feel good?

Emma:

Brilliant, that's a brilliant rule to follow.

Dawn:

It's okay to be not okay as well!

Dawn's infectious, sunny personality always shines out and I am so pleased that you will find many glimpses of her work and outlook from our interview here. I am very grateful to her, as always, for her candid and positive answers.

Here's to a bright next phase of joyous performance for the world and endless smiles from Dawn.

Her web links are:

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dawnywilliams

Spotlight: https://www.spotlight.com/profile/0536-7869-9215

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20th. March, 2021